Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Chaps/Chapesses, who here among thee hath knowledge of the oldest bus routes (numbers) within thy city gates -
ie when did the current numbers start operating?
Do any of the esteemed members of this board know the origins of certain numbers that are still operating today?

For example, I know from what info I have at hand that the following are still operating to this day since:-

1960: 32-33-34
1961: 106-111-148
1962: 103
1963: 15
1964: 19-41-42-48-55

Anyone in the know?

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby laptop15 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:02 pm
Wow, there that old?

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby stiffins » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:04 pm
Maybe older? MTT formed in '58 but they did actually continue on with many of the routes and numbers that they assumed control over. Scarborough bus service for example (268-271-272 etc) and 117 (Mandurah) - these routes/nos were simply carried forward. There are many more - I was hoping others here already knew this. I thought the ATDB was the ultimate authority - apparently NOT!

No, the WATD is the ULTIMATE[b] alternative

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:44 am
There was a fair selection of routes that lasted up until the 1990's that were around for 30 odd years but I think Insert has nailed the ones remaining, the original 117 Mandurah went well over 10 years ago now as well. With exception to modifications by extending the routes, Routes 68 & 69 have been around for well over 35 years. These services terminated in Dianella for many years in Golding Street before being extended to Mirrabooka in the late 80's

Jase

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby insert_coin » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:11 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:There was a fair selection of routes that lasted up until the 1990's that were around for 30 odd years but I think Insert has nailed the ones remaining, the original 117 Mandurah went well over 10 years ago now as well. With exception to modifications by extending the routes, Routes 68 & 69 have been around for well over 35 years. These services terminated in Dianella for many years in Golding Street before being extended to Mirrabooka in the late 80's
Jase



"but I think Insert has nailed the ones remaining" - I'm sure there's more Jase, just gotta dig 'em out.

But yeah, you're quite correct. The 68-9 (also the 66-7) replaced the 60 (incl the Trolleys) that went to Woodrow Av and extended to April Rd Dianella up to 1965 I believe. I know the 60 had certainly been replaced (renumbered) by 1966 - which correlates to a grand total of 44 years at this stage that the 68-9 have been going.

Here's some others:

15,19, 24, 41-2, 48, 52, 55, 103, 106, 111, 148, 311, 317: 1962 (46 yrs)
(the above are what I know of but may go back further)
21, 44: 1966 (44 yrs)

Hij would have known, he was a timetable (and routes perhaps) expert


F*ck, I forgot about him. Is he still around???? He'd be perfect for this.
Pls come out of the woodwork Hij and fill in the blanks.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby UQB003 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:44 pm

insert_coin wrote:

Hij would have known, he was a timetable (and routes perhaps) expert


F*ck, I forgot about him. Is he still around???? He'd be perfect for this.
Pls come out of the woodwork Hij and fill in the blanks.



Mate, been trying to bring him back for years to no avail

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby busdriver12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:18 am
I'm not sure exactly what you're after, but here's my 10c worth.

The 352 would have started in the early-mid 60's (not sure exactly when) as I always used to catch it on Flinders St Yokine (near where I grew up). It would commence in Murray St then go via William Wellington Cleaver Carr Charles Flinders (around Nollamara shops) and terminate in various terminii in Balga over the years until it ended up in Marangaroo Dve near Amberton Ave in a unsealed turnaround bay. It retained that terminus until deleted in the early 80's after increased usage of the new Mirrabooka Bus station and the Balga and Girrawheen sections replaced by the 372.

The 354 was created in the late 70's prior to the opening of Mirrabooka Bus Station and was a peak period supplementary service to the 352 and 356 which were the main routes operating along Flinders St at the time. The 354's terminus in either Quadea Rd or Korroda Rd Nollamara (can't remember exacty as I never took it to the terminus and have lost all my old timetables). It would then travel via Maltarra St R Ravenswood R Flinders and back into the city. In 1979 when Mirrabooka Bus Station was opened, it's terminus moved there and have been running that route ever since.

As for the 103 when I started driving buses it used have a terminus in Redmond St Salters Point (current 31 terminus) and would travel via the current 31 route until Canning Hwy and would turn right into Canning Hwy and via the Causeway and the terrace and via it's current route to Fremantle. It's Fremantle terminus was in Cantonment St opposite the Woolstores shopping centre where the vast majority of Fremantle buses terminated at the time. The 102 and 104 went similar ways but will expand on that if you want me to.

Sorry if this is not exactly what you're after but I thought it may help to fill in some of the gaps.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby mrobsessed » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:30 pm
How about the 276/77? I'm not a native, but I'm led to believe they were Scarborough B/S route numbers.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby insert_coin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:17 pm
Thanks for the input gentlemen - some interesting info there.
Phil - I can say from what I do know that no service operated north of Amelia St on the eastern side of Wanneroo Rd as late as 1962. What was operating were two services to Balga which were represented by symbols on the timetable - a "+" which ran from Perth via Flinders St and was the pre-cursor to the 354 on the now familiar route through Nollamara, the other a "cross" symbol which ran via Wanneroo Rd direct to Amelia St. By 1964 (at least) a new 251 ran via Flinders St to the cnr.of Robertsbridge Rd & Mirrabooka Av, which was technically still Nollamara at the time but nonetheless stated as Mirrabooka in the new timetable. In 1965 the "+" became the 252 and the "cross" became 253.
As happened with a lot of services in the mid 1960s, thse services were bumped up by 100 in the numbering scheme (by the newish MTT) and by 1967 the 252 became 352 and the 253 > 353. The 354 (which commenced in 1966 I think) initially ran to the cnr. of Wanneroo and Nth Bch Rds. A new 249 was also running via Wanneroo Rd to Balcatta Rd (later to become 349). The 354 you remember that terminated in Koorooda Rd (I'll never forget its "K" designation in the key) was, as you said a peak hour supp to the 352-6.
I think it was in May 1979 that the direct services through to the KGB area (352-356-365) were relegated to after hours ops only and during shopping hours they were substituted/replaced with: 365 (curtailed to Mirrabooka...with its 363 counterpart remaining direct) and 372-376 services also operating from the new Mirrabooka "Square" shopping centre. The 354 became the main connecting service (extended to Mirrabooka from Nollamara) to Perth (via Flinders and Nollamara all-stops) along with the 355 (Wanneroo Rd direct); 360 (Mirrabooka av-Flinders St all-stops); 362 (Mirrabooka av-Flinders limited-stops) & 366 (Mirrabooka av-Flinders express).

mrobsessed - I'm not aboriginal either but I reckon their input on seeing the first omnibus arriving at or traversing Mt Hawthorn would be pretty invaluable.
You're right, the 274-5 were operated by the SBS until the ABC...sorry MTT took over. The 276-77 were introduced about 1966, poss '67.
I regret that I have only a couple of TTs from 63-64 of the 274-5.

Thanks chaps

Anyone else prepared to come out?

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby insert_coin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:29 pm
PS - I remember when the 103 was through-routed from Freo via the City to Salter Point replacing the 37 on the Sth Pth side and also the 104 that ran via the 103 from Salter Pt to Canning hwy/Barker Av then via 32 along Coode st/Mill Pt Rd to Perth, and continuing thru the City back to Freo.

Which depot were you based at, Pal or Caus?

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby wayfarer » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:31 pm
106 gets my vote .. I grew up with this route catching it along canning highway to get to and from school in Applecross. I remember frequently catching renaults on / along canning hwy sometimes to adventure into the city after school , often the 105 or 151 as it traversed the freeway and was quicker. The thing I remember was the bodybuilding on some of these buses was absolutely shocking, alot of the time at lights it was almost like the thing was going to vibrate itself to bits. Kind of like each piston was attached to sledgehammers which pounded the floor with each revolution of the engine!

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby jonwil » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:23 pm

wayfarer wrote:The thing I remember was the bodybuilding on some of these buses was absolutely shocking, alot of the time at lights it was almost like the thing was going to vibrate itself to bits.


I know of quite a few Renaults (including older artics) that STILL feel like that

The condition is obviously hereditary and has carried through to the 0c500le gas abominations

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby Leyland B21 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:32 pm
Would the former route 219 Perth (Pier St later Busport - Armadale) have been a long term stalwart. It was around before i was born in 74 up until it became route 220 in which 220 previous to the current was also a long time Byford - Armadale service again changed around the same time to route 251.

Another long time service i can remember would be the former 151 Freo - Perth via Coobellup which was around from the late 60's early 70's before being deleted to make way for the 940 Hammy Hill - Perth.

Jase

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby insert_coin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:39 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:Would the former route 219 Perth (Pier St later Busport - Armadale) have been a long term stalwart. It was around before i was born in 74 up until it became route 220 in which 220 previous to the current was also a long time Byford - Armadale service again changed around the same time to route 251.

Another long time service i can remember would be the former 151 Freo - Perth via Coobellup which was around from the late 60's early 70's before being deleted to make way for the 940 Hammy Hill - Perth.

Jase



The 219 is certainly a good candidate - it's been around since 1966. Prior to that it was the 119 - for how long, who else knows?????
Likewise, the 220 to Byford was the 120 up to 1966. The 151 entered service in 1969 I believe.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby busdriver12 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:17 am
Thanks insert_coin for filling in the gaps especially for me. I grew up in Yokine until 1977 when I moved to Girrawheen (not far from the then 352/372 terminus) for 6 months, then the following 17 years in Fernhurst Cres in Balga. I used the buses a lot and recall when the Mirrabooka Bus Station opened in '79 there was a mass mail out from the MTT to every house in the Balga/Girrawheen area which consisted of a pack of relevant timetables and route descriptions. I so wish I had the presence of mind to hang on to them but cie la vie!

I think I have already mentioned it here, but I travelled to the city on the very first 366 service from Mirrabooka when the bus station opened. As I worked at Sydney Atkinson Motors (where the Hyatt Hotel currently is), I would take a 372/366 into the city and then a Red Clipper from WSBS (or PCBS as it was known then) to the cnr of Adelaide Tce and Plain St.

I'll admit to go back a fair way (I was born in 1960), but there are a lot of younger members that would have equally wonderful recollections. I am relatively new to the south side having been a north of the river boy most of my life. What I have noticed in my time so far in my time at Swan Transit is that there are a lot of routes that have legacy to them i.e. they are variations of older established routes. Some sections have been chopped and changed, but the streets/areas buses service are pretty much the same. e.g. I recall when one of the older Canning Vale routes (I think it was the 175 would deviate around Portcullis Dve in Willetton off Collins Rd.

I recall Herbert putting up a photo in the Where is it thread showing a bus turning right out of Bashinghall St E Vic Pk into Berwick St where the current 17n series buses turn left. It'd be interesting to learn about the route history of this area especially as I am not a native!

This is a brilliant thread and there must be so much more to put together the picture of how we have arrived at the routes we have today.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby busdriver12 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:25 am

insert_coin wrote:PS - I remember when the 103 was through-routed from Freo via the City to Salter Point replacing the 37 on the Sth Pth side and also the 104 that ran via the 103 from Salter Pt to Canning hwy/Barker Av then via 32 along Coode st/Mill Pt Rd to Perth, and continuing thru the City back to Freo.



Actually, in those times it was the 102 which ran along Coode St at the time. It too was a Fremantle through routed service and the 104 was a combined 102/103 service.

insert_coin wrote:Which depot were you based at, Pal or Caus?



I gather this was directed at me - both. I started at the Causeway in '96 and after 9 months in the CATs from their commencement, transferred to Palmyra from Mar 97 until Jul 98 when MetroBus finished. Interestingly tomorrow (4th Jul) marks the 12th anniversary of MetroBus' demise.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby busdriver12 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:41 am

Leyland B21 wrote:Another long time service i can remember would be the former 151 Freo - Perth via Coobellup which was around from the late 60's early 70's before being deleted to make way for the 940 Hammy Hill - Perth



The 151 was still running after MetroBus folded in 1998. I ran that service numerous times when based at the Causeway and Palmyra. I think Southern Coast ran it for some time until the routes were revamped (early 2000's IIRC) and the 151 was deleted. Other routes in the area I recall was the 149 which had a terminus in Doherty Rd Coolbellup and the 152 which was basically the 151 from Coolbellup into Fremantle.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby wayfarer » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:47 am
yes It had slipped my mind that the 103 had that extra 'dogleg' added to the city end of it's route. correct me if I'm wrong but did they delete that section because ... I forget the route number but the bus that terminates at the canning bridge interchange thats supposed to be the shuttle for curtin university.. is it because this bus now passes thru the same areas

wayfarer

busdriver12 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:17 am
Thanks insert_coin for filling in the gaps especially for me. I grew up in Yokine until 1977 when I moved to Girrawheen (not far from the then 352/372 terminus) for 6 months, then the following 17 years in Fernhurst Cres in Balga.

I'm sure I can dig out some early Yokine and Girrawheen stuff - just yelp anytime and it will be done.

I used the buses a lot and recall when the Mirrabooka Bus Station opened in '79 there was a mass mail out from the MTT to every house in the Balga/Girrawheen area which consisted of a pack of relevant timetables and route descriptions. I so wish I had the presence of mind to hang on to them but cie la vie!

I remember those mailouts - I actually had them at one stage - but do you think about keeping stuff when you're young and dumb?

I think I have already mentioned it here, but I travelled to the city on the very first 366 service from Mirrabooka when the bus station opened.

An historian, folks, sits among us mere mortals. Any pics Phil? ....didn't think so!

As I worked at Sydney Atkinson Motors (where the Hyatt Hotel currently is), I would take a 372/366 into the city and then a Red Clipper from WSBS (or PCBS as it was known then) to the cnr of Adelaide Tce and Plain St.

I've seen a pic posted by someone on the atdb of SAM - perhaps UQB003!!!
it was an interesting shot along Adelaide Tce.

I'll admit to go back a fair way (I was born in 1960), but there are a lot of younger members that would have equally wonderful recollections. I am relatively new to the south side having been a north of the river boy most of my life. What I have noticed in my time so far in my time at Swan Transit is that there are a lot of routes that have legacy to them i.e. they are variations of older established routes. Some sections have been chopped and changed, but the streets/areas buses service are pretty much the same.

A spring chicken AND historian! That's what this thread's about, primarily to see how much has been "chopped and changed" - it's interesting to see how those long worn established routes have survived from the earliest of origins through to today. I hope we can dig out many more.

e.g. I recall when one of the older Canning Vale routes (I think it was the 175 would deviate around Portcullis Dve in Willetton off Collins Rd.

I remember that well - a few drivers would mix the different legs of the street up. It ended up being reduced to just a handful of deviations.

I recall Herbert putting up a photo in the Where is it thread showing a bus turning right out of Bashinghall St E Vic Pk into Berwick St where the current 17n series buses turn left. It'd be interesting to learn about the route history of this area especially as I am not a native!

For it to have been that as described above it more than likely would've been the old 27 that travelled via Albany hwy then traversed Basinghall st and turned right into Berwick then left into Sussex to rejoin the 25-28 Berwick St services enroute to Wilson. It was later re-routed directly from Albany hwy into Sussex st direct and withdrawn from Basinghall, so that photo would be a jem!

This is a brilliant thread and there must be so much more to put together the picture of how we have arrived at the routes we have today.

People like yourself make it so!

Postby wayfarer » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:47 am
yes It had slipped my mind that the 103 had that extra 'dogleg' added to the city end of it's route. correct me if I'm wrong but did they delete that section because ... I forget the route number but the bus that terminates at the canning bridge interchange thats supposed to be the shuttle for curtin university.. is it because this bus now passes thru the same areas

wayfarer

Not sure what you mean here wayfarer - extra dogleg at the city end???
The 103 replaced the old 37 that ran to Manning (Salter Pt) direct via the Causeway and Canning Hwy to Barker Av, then wiggled via the same route the 31 takes today.
The 104 was a combined 102-103 ie it ran via 102 (same as 32 today) to Thelma St then via 103 to Manning.
Do you mean the 100-101 Canning Bdge - Curtin shuttles? They traverse a small part of the old 103 - namely Henley - Canavan Sts.

sorry, what I meant was , yea the perth - salter point part of the route. and yes I did mean the 100 buses. isn't there some dissatisfaction with the route expressed of late, I remember seeing that it may be one of the candidates for a light rail system if it ever gets introduced to WA

Cool!
I'm not sure of the dissatisfaction - me personally I dislike elements of the service namely the interchange that doesn't allow for better route-planning. If it was configured better you could have 101s running direct via Manning Rd in both directions which is quicker.

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:53 pm
Former route 103 has been around for a long time, running between Adelaide St Fremantle nr Queen St and Hay St East Perth prior to extention to Manning after deletion of routes 37/39 and now reverting Back to , well close to Hay St at Hale st and operating from Freo station for last few years.

One of the oldest routes I know of would be Route 34. This particular route is unique originally a through service from Douglas Avenue near Canning Hwy Sth Perth - City then through routed as route 32 to Como. Route 34 then was extended to Curtin Uni in around 1989. This in turn became Route 109 for a while running from Curtin Uni following route 34's winding route to Perth, again through servicing to Redcliffe following the former route 309 to Redcliffe which was deleted to make way for route 109. After deletion of the through route it reverted back to route 34 but rather than operating down the terrace it operates as it is now from Wellington St Bus Station via William St and follows the path again to Douglas Tce then taking in the part of route 33 that used to operate around Penhros College area before they simplified route 33 and to Curtin thus extending as the current to Cannington following the former route 181 service between pretty much Gillon St Karawara and Cannington along the same route.

The 17* series of buses mentioned earlier prior to this have been around since the early 80's. Previously these buses were 189-196 series running between Leeming (Route 189 Limited Stop), Rossmoyne (route 190) 191-195 (Riverton / later Burrendah Bus Station), There was also from memory a route 196 which operated between Shelley Bridge and Burrendah (Connected with buses at Fern Rd). The 190 series prior to terminating in Kings Park Rd near Havelock St West Perth were through routed with Claremont services if my memory serves me correctly.

more older routes i can think of is the City Beach / Floreat services which took over from the trolley buses along Cambridge Street. Routes 81/84/85 and 91/92/95. Im unsure of the 81/84/85 has been around for as long as the 90 series so assistance is needed in this area from those in more of a know. There were also shorter routes which again someone will need to verify that ran between Floreat and Perth along Cambridge / Grantham Streets, Route 90 was one i believe which ran to Dumfries Rd Floreat

Jase

Re: Perth's OLDEST bus routes

Postby UQB709 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:22 pm

The 109 was altered back to route 34 before deletion of the through route (in January 2001 actually).

Some route numbers have a nice reminder of historical links (and I think a certain ATDB member had a large hand in that), for example the 109 reverting to 34 as mentioned above, 27 is similar to the old 207, the 28 incorporates much of the old 82, the 36 is a nod to the former 306 and so on.

Actually, in those times it was the 102 which ran along Coode St at the time. It too was a Fremantle through routed service and the 104 was a combined 102/103 service.

insert_coin was correct, both the 102 and 104 ran along Code Street (although I'm not sure if busdriver12 was agreeing with this or not). The 104 ran from Fremantle via Route 102/103 to Canning Hwy, then via Route 102 to the end of Coode St, then left Thelma St and across Canning Hwy to pick up the 103 to Salter Point. The 102 and 104 were replaced by the 32 in 2001, which was not through routed to Fremantle (the 103 continuing to operate Fremantle - Salter Point, but at all hours).
were replaced by the 32 in 2001, which was not through routed to Fremantle (the 103 continuing to operate Fremantle - Salter Point, but at all hours).

uqb003 wrote:So does anyone know when the original 207 Cottesloe to Perth commenced?

I'll look into it for you but got a fairly hectic 2 weeks ahead! I would hazard a guess it'd be in the early 70s??? but my wife has previously indicated that I've been wrong before (I know, I didn't believe her either)

Hopefully an answer soon......ish.